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-   -   8835 RPM, 21 psi, 22+ AFR, and ALKY... (http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=6567)

DoubleD 10-10-2011 12:34 PM

8835 RPM, 21 psi, 22+ AFR, and ALKY...
 
1 Attachment(s)
Background on the car: TE60, TH400 RMVB, GEN2 Translator with Extender Extreme G chip, BB 2-Step, 60#ers, Razors Kit single nozzle, roller cam and heads. Please review the Powerlogger file of the incident.

Yes, the title sounds like a recipe for disaster, and well I'm lucky it didn't actually do anything other than pop a head gasket. The car did not actually see 8835 RPM, only the computer did.

The conditions in the title only occurred for a couple of powerlogger frames, but it could easily happen again, so I need to determine what the issue is.

I essentially hit the soft cut Main limit on the 2step (TH400 RMVB, so I was "accidentally" testing the main limit) and all hell broke loose. Please see the attached powerlogger file of the incident. The powerlogger/ecm saw an RPM reading of 8800 rpm for part of a second and cut the fuel injectors while Methanol was presumably still spraying (21 psi of boost at the time). I got out of it obviously, because the car bucked so hard I almost hit my head on the steering wheel. This is what the 2step is supposed to prevent isn't it?

I am really not sure what may have caused this. I thought that it may be an issue between the GENII and extender extreme G chip with spark control in conjunction with the Baileys 2-step, but I cannot be sure. The only connection I could see being the problem is wire B4 which is tapped by the Translator, and spliced by the 2-step. is there a particular connection scheme this must follow? It currently goes ECM->GEN2 tap for spark control->2step splice->engine.

What could have caused this?

I kinda wish I had a chip that was burned for no rev limit at this point, but it still seems odd that this is the computers reaction to the rev limiter.

I'm hoping at least someone can chime in with some ideas at least.

Please help me out. Very hesitant to drive the car knowing that this could happen again.

Thanks - DD

TurboBob 10-12-2011 02:14 AM

describe how the car is configured, especially anything non-stock in the ignition system (hotwire kits, other odd stuff)

How is the Gen-2 installed?

yes, I would recommend having the rev limiter disabled in your chip.

Bob

DoubleD 10-12-2011 08:27 AM

The only odd things in the ignition system are the Gen 2, and BB 2-step. The car is an 84 to 87 conversion, but it looks like everything was completely swapped from an 87, so no weird stuff there. there is a tach installed in the car, but I wouldn't think that would be related...

The Gen 2 is installed per instructions, without using the adapter harness. This does mean that some connections are spliced, some are tapped, etc. The Gen2 has been functioning exactly as it should including the wideband tracking at WOT, as well as spark control.

as I detailed in the first post, wire B4 is the only thing that I can think of that could be the issue. in the current configuration, it goes from the ecm, to the tap for the Gen 2, then to the splice for the 2step, and on to the engine.

I need to pull the chip and send it in ASAP. I need to know where to send it though.

Thanks for your help,

-D

DoubleD 10-12-2011 08:28 AM

in other news, the new headgaskets are almost finished being installed...

admin 10-12-2011 09:05 AM

Send the chip to Full Throttle Speed with a note explaining what you want done
Mike

DoubleD 10-12-2011 09:43 AM

could you PM or Post the address? Also, should I send some money with it? I would also send in the GEN2 to have the backlight put in and to get updated. might pick up a logging cable too...

in any case, am I right to assume that this is not the typical operation of the 2 step system? I have never seen a log from someone else with the 2 step active, so I'm looking for advice.

previous advice I have received is that I have defective parts like ignition control or maybe a cam sensor, though I know the chip rev limiter works from past experiences and have had no other ignition related problems to date.

I also failed to mention that it is a "type 2" ignition coil arrangement (I think that is what it is called) which uses the separate coil packs similar to a Series II engine (more familiar with those :) ) I suppose that was a major oversight...

TurboBob 10-12-2011 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleD
could you PM or Post the address? Also, should I send some money with it? I would also send in the GEN2 to have the backlight put in and to get updated. might pick up a logging cable too...

in any case, am I right to assume that this is not the typical operation of the 2 step system? I have never seen a log from someone else with the 2 step active, so I'm looking for advice.

previous advice I have received is that I have defective parts like ignition control or maybe a cam sensor, though I know the chip rev limiter works from past experiences and have had no other ignition related problems to date.

I also failed to mention that it is a "type 2" ignition coil arrangement (I think that is what it is called) which uses the separate coil packs similar to a Series II engine (more familiar with those :) ) I suppose that was a major oversight...



This is not typical of the 2-step. I probably have a log here somewhere.

"major oversight" ? I'd say so. While it is possible to make a type-2 system work with the 2-step, it involves surgery to the ignition unit.

The 2-step is designed for the stock system which has separate power feeds for the coils (pin M) and module (pin P). The Type-2 systems share a common power pin.

Bob

DoubleD 10-12-2011 01:42 PM

well, there is my problem right there. since I purchased the car with the current ignition system, I have always thought of it as "stock" though it is not. never had any experience with the car running a CCCI, and ASSumed it was apples to apples.

This car is hacked to hell anyway, so could you explain what might need to be done to make it work? or should I dump it like a bad girlfriend?

seems like changing to a CCCI will cost significantly more than the 2step did...

Thank you for all of your help,

-D

TurboBob 10-12-2011 01:47 PM

your quickest solution might be:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/par...gn-module.html



But, the surgery required is as follows.

determine which pin on each coil is the "feed" pin and solder a wire to it.
do something to make sure that the feed pin no longer is fed from the module.
tie the 3 feed wires together and connect to the pink wire of the 2-step.
feed power to the red wire of the 2-step. (do not use the fuse-box connection scheme)

Bob

DoubleD 10-12-2011 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboBob


I like that solution. maybe I'll fiddle with the type 2 stuff another day. Seems like most people have bad experiences with it anyway. I'll hold onto it as a spare. just store it in the trunk "in case"

will definitely be sending in chip for a retune.


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